The Tyre Question – Appropriate Tyres for a Motorhome?
Zagan, our 2001 3.5 tonne Hymer B544 motorhome, needs a couple of new tyres. And here the great motorhome tyre hunt commences! Our plan is to head for the Alps in winter, so we’re going to see some snow and ice, but we then plan to be on the road throughout the summer too. Our route isn’t planned out, but we may want to drive through Germany or Austria in winter, and according to the AA, that means we need tyres at least marked ‘M+S’ on the sidewall to be legal.
Just a mo here. As I understand it, there are three ‘categories’ of tyre we could choose:
- Full-on winter tyres. Best suited to driving in the cold, better grip, but not well suited to driving in warmer conditions. Folks using these seem to typically have two sets of wheels – one with summer tyres fitted and one with winter tyres. Works well enough if you have a garage to keep four or five wheels, not quite so well if you’re out touring from winter to summer.
- Mud and snow tyres. Unlike winter tyres, this is a bit of an informal designation. Manufacturers don’t have to go through any independent testing to allow them to mark their tyres as ‘M+S’. It’s questionable just how much additional grip these tyres would give us (I’m working on the assumption they’ll give no additional grip), but for legal reasons the tyres need M+S marked on them to stay legal in some countries in winter.
- Finally summer tyres. On our two year tour we used these and avoided cold countries in winter. Legally we could have (and still can) visit most countries in winter with these tyres, as long as we have snow chains, which we do.
- One last point: as our garage pointed out, our tyres have enough grip to pass the MOT here, but not enough to be legal abroad. The AA website linked to above covers minimum tread requirements.
I started reading up on which motorhome tyres to get, and pretty soon ended in an exasperated mess! Ian and Sue’s blog was the best write-up I found, but the tyres mentioned were all rather expensive and only one set had the M+S marking. I also wasn’t sure whether having two different makes was a good idea – one pair on the back and another on the front.
In the end we went for the easy option: just get the same tyres as are already on it. These have lasted through 4 years of use by the previous owner, who loaded it at least as much as us but probably drove much less. They’re Chinese Westlake SC301 tyres, and are officially summer tyres, but have the M+S designation (go figure). We got them through www.national.co.uk as the local garages couldn’t source them, but weirdly they told us about the option to buy online, and are more than happy to fit them? They’re about half the price of the big names (just over £50 each, plus about £15 a tyre to fit). Watch this space to see how we get on with ’em.
Cheers, Jay
Edit 21 Jan 2016: whoa! The tyre thing turned into something of a saga. Tons of advice came in suggesting the SC301 tyres would be a significant risk to our wanderings. We pondered this, read and wondered:
- These same tyres have been fitted to the van for over 4 years, and have been in a reasonable amount of use under similar loads to those we intended to go with.
- They are rated to carry the load of the van.
- They’re M+S marked, which we needed to stay legal in Germany and Austria in winter.
- They’re made by the 12th largest tyre manufacturer in the world – not one of the big names, but not a tiny player either.
The difficulty we were having was the fact we could find little actual evidence to say why the tyres weren’t appropriate. Plenty of advice, but few hard facts. In the end, we decided that since driving is the single most dangerous this we do, we’d change approach and get some ‘big name’ tyres. I called the tyre fitter to tell him and his answer was “Westlake? What’s wrong with them? We fit them to loads of vans, never had a problem.” But then he went and looked at the actual tyres and spotted they were 6 ply and started to umm and arr, so that made the final decision.
The outcome: we’re swapping all four of the tyres (not the spare – that’s in good condition and we’ll only swap it if we need to) for Michelin Agilis Camping tyres for a cost of £499 including fitting. They’re summer tyres, but are M+S marked, and are specifically designed for motorhomes. Once again, watch this space and we’ll let you know how we get on with them!
We actually bought the Westlakes from tyreleader.co.uk by the way, who have told us we need to pay them £50 to return the tyres (£25 per tyre) – which is almost 50% of the order cost. We’re disputing this as it seems excessive, but something we’ll definitely bear in mind when ordering tyres in future.
Cheers, Jay
Just to be clear, the ‘3 Peak snowflake’ symbol on so-called winter tyres has no legal force in EU. Only combinations of M + S do (M+S, M.S. or M&S). i.e. 3 peak tyres without the M + S sign are not winter tyres.
See official advice Germany http://www.uk.diplo.de/Vertretung/unitedkingdom/en/04/Transport/Winter__Tyres.html and Austria https://www.help.gv.at/Portal.Node/hlpd/public/content/6/Seite.0631001.html
The complication is France. There is no general winter tyre rule but certain mountain roads in the snow only allow chains or ‘winter tyres’ and some – irritatingly – only allow chains, depending on the sign beside the road.
You’ve made the right choice. In winter in Europe you need M+S marked tyres to get to the overwhelming majority of places, and chains for a few.
Just be careful of advice in the UK, it’s not anyone’s specialist subject…
I would not put those tyres on my motorhome if you paid me, for your size they are only 6ply and you need 8ply tyres.
the maximum pressure you can put in them is 54psi lower than is recommended by Hymer. Added to that most Chinese tyres seem to have poor wet handling and braking.
Hi Jay. On a completely different subject, we’re kitting out our van at the moment for a similar lifestyle to yourselves. LPG, solar panels etc. Just looking for a bit of advice if that’s ok :
Is a second leisure battery really necessary?
Is a roof air con unit for the van a good idea or likely not to be used?
Would really appreciate your thoughts…
Cheers
Hi Robin – we did a couple of years with only one leisure battery, so no, you don’t need a second one, it just makes life more convenient. The roof air con unit we had was a water evaporation-based device, which didn’t seem to make any appreciable difference to the temperature in the van. I wouldn’t recommend that type. Cheers, Jay
When shopping for items that can affect the safety of myself and my family, such as tyres and brakes, I shop for quality rather price. I recommend buying the best that you possibly afford, rather than the cheapest that meet the minimum legal requirement.
Point taken Dave.
I wouldn’t normally have considered these tyres but for the fact they are (a) rated to the weight of the van and (b) they’re already fitted and have been on the van for the past 4 years – long enough for the front pair to wear down to close to the legal limit without blowing out (and the previous owner carried far more kit than we do). We’ve done a 10 week tour in them up to Scotland and down to the Med, and they performed flawlessly.
Cheers, Jason
I agree – I recently fitted 4 new tyres to our 3.5 tonne Hymer S630 and we went for Goodyear van tyres in the end. About the double the price of yours after some shopping around. I personally would be suspicious of tyres that had worn down to legal minimum in 4 years with only moderate use. Still its your choice and no choice is risk free. May the tyre gods be with you :)
Hi Jay about 5 years ago with our previous Hymer B574 we change our tyres from Michelin to Avon because of price. Dealers said they would be fine. What a difference the MH rolled about all over the place, I don’t think the tyre walls were up to the job. Ever since I would only go for the best the road handling is so much better.
Hi guys, when I replaced the tyres on my small Chausson 50, I opted for Avon AV9 van tyres which have reinforced side walls. Main reason is that I’m on the move a lot and van tyres, as well as being cheaper, are designed for continuous use. Whereas some of the features of MH tyres assume the MH will be standing for long periods.
Hi Michelin for me all the way, why risk your life just to save a few bob! Michelin as I have been told say they are good for 10 years, although I expect this depends on where they are used, ie strong sunshine and mileage. I put 4 on my VW T5 at an extra cost over other brands of £50, not much in my mind for safety when cruising at legal speed on the French toll roads to the sunshine in Provence.
Still not getting any blogs since December, any idea what has gone wrong,
Richard, Frankie and Jack the russell
Hi Richard
Although money has an influence on our choices, the avoidance of fear-based decision making also weighs strong. As we’re heading somewhere cold, what we **should** do is buy 5 rims and buy a set of winter tyres, plus chains. We should then store these when we return to a warmer climate, and swap to a set of motorhome-specific tyres. So we’re looking at roughly £1000 plus we need somewhere to store 5 wheels.
But do we? That’s the question which we’ve been thinking about. The forums, and now the comments section of this post, are packed with reasons to spend as much as possible on tyres, and my gut feeling is to do just that. But I’ve come to distrust my gut feeling, as it’s lead me astray on numerous occasions. If I followed my gut feeling, I’d not be packing work in and wandering about two continents like a nomad. I’d be working another 20 years and topping my pension up.
Specifically, no-one has given me a valid reference to an authority which states the tyres I’m planning to use place me and Ju at any significant risk above more expensive tyres. The fact the same make and model has been fitted to the van for over 4 years, and the fact they’re commercial tyres rated for the weight of the vehicle and are M+S marked is all the actual evidence I have to go on.
What specifically is inappropriate about these tyres? I don’t plan to have the van sat about unused for weeks on end. I don’t plan on testing their capabilities to any great extent – if we find very icy conditions we’ll wait for a clear road and head to the coast. I drive at between 50 and 60mph. If the tyres prove inadequate, we’ll simply swap them all out in while in France?
The tyre choice seems to be an emotive one, and I can understand why. Safety is important. But I trained as a scientist – and I can’t see any hard evidence to say these tyres are inappropriate? If anyone can give me some I’ll readily get a set of motorhome-specific M+S tyres.
Cheers, Jay
P.S. The email host claims to have fixed the problem. Sigh. Will keep trying…
Hi Guys,
I’m totally with you. Tyre safety & reliability is just as much about how & where the vehicle is driven (or stored) as the make of tyre chosen.
I love learning about all this motorhome stuff🚐. i’m with you Jay but for the durability issue. If you can expect the expensive tyres to last roughly twice as long then I’d be swayed to get them.
Hi Guys, Having read this blog and the superb article written by Ian (Ian and Sue) I did my research on line and eventually ordered the recommended Vredestein Comtrac All Season through Black Circle .com @ £102.71 per tyre fully fitted/balanced etc. With my CSMA discount the price came down to £99.63 per tyre. Having been quoted up to £150 per tyre I am pleased with my lot! They are being fitted next Wednesday.
Regards
Mike
And then you look at any reasonable tyre comparison test and see how chinese tyres in general almost always get an unsatisfactory or similar rating. Usually due to appaling handling/grip in wet conditions. In other words, a stopping distance so much longer that you are looking at a nasty crash whereas decent tires would already get you to a full stop.
With regard to winter driving in the Alps… I would not be doing it with agilis camping regardless of their m+s rating. You will get stuck on the first serious pass and chains wont be of much use with less than several cm of snow.
Our existence is based on making an assessment of risk. We risk being robbed, crashing, making ourselves penniless and making fools of ourselves on a daily basis. That’s the life we’ve chosen. The safe option would be to not do what we do. To stay at home. To keep a safe job. To stack our pensions sky high. To swap our tyres for winters and accept the cost and inconvenience.
We crossed the Alps this winter with the Michelins. We’re not dead. We didn’t get stuck once. The chains only went on the once and they worked perfectly. But then, we never intended to spend months in the Alps, and didn’t push them. We’re on an extended tour which covers multiple seasons and road conditions. M+S tyres made sense for us. They wouldn’t make sense for others.
Cheers, happy travels, Jay
I was very confused until I used my blog to ask for tyre advice and was given the link to your page. I’ve found this discussion very useful as I’ve been asking exactly these questions as this winter I’m not going to be mohoming in warm climes. You’ve “sold” me on the Michelins as you seem to traveling in a very similar way to me.
Thanks and hope your travels continue safe and happy, Maggie
Thanks Maggie. The Michelins aren’t cheap, but for our ‘all season’ requirement they seem to be one of the few tyres which do the job. So far we’ve been on them for 7 months, doing a few thousand miles, including winter driving in mountains, and we’re very happy with them. Cheers, happy travels, Jay